anyone have any sort of confirmation of the date of the palestinian footage? I know that that footage carried a large impact on those around me. A very serious charge against CNN.

sunset in israel was at 6:50pm on the 11th.
israel is 7 hours ahead of EST.

if the video was taken around 11pm our time (which seems to be just about the right time).
that would make it 6 pm their time

and thus... sunset....

NOT around 3pm as some of the videos show.

So, either CNN knows how to defy Kepler's Laws of Planetary Motion.....

Or they reused at least *some* old footage.

I am very interested in this story which has just been brought to my attention. I am collecting present-time news articles about the attacks of Tuesday and their aftermath for a conspiracy-based website. If anybody can get any confirmation of this story it could be very important... but wasn't Iraq's invasion of Kuwait in 1990, not 1991 as stated? Mat

It is, and always has been standard practice by all the news groups to use archived footage to demonstrate a point. When on ABC they said "...by this airplane" and showed a clip of a 767 they meant that it was by the same type. Almost all of what you see is file footage on the news, but that does not mean that the story isn't true.

According to news reports, photojournalists and cameramen have been warned by the Palestenian leadership that the gov't could not assure the safety of the journalists if they aired the footage or distributed the photos of Palestenians celebrating in the streets... seems like a good reason to use stock footage to me...

Aug. 2, 1990: Iraq invades Kuwait.

So it's Ok for you to be fooled by the press?

Press form public opinion, public opinion form politics. So who rule the world? ;)

I'm Russian, so I know that one event can be covered as 'butchery in Checnia' or 'succesful antiterroristic operation'. Last year only second coverage is used :( I understand who motivate press to take one or another position in our country, but what motivate your 'free' press - only desire to attach humans to TV?

Sorry for bad english, hope you get the main idea.

if it was approx 9am here after the bombing then it was 2am in Palestine...

great thinking there re-post!

hey Nick the russian guy... don't worry about the english..

you do much better than we could do in Russian!!

rob

Yes there is 7 hours in between Palestine and the East coast but umm, Its 7 hours forward. it wouldnt be 2 am it would be around 4-4:30 PM. Use your head before you post. Those shots were real as far as i know. I dont see why CNN would do that. During the Gulf war, CNN was the only news network allowed in to Iraqi areas because the Iraqis KNEW they report the truth.

Seems like the online consensus as far as the middle east's veiws of the USA are disgusting enough with out the footage of the Palistinians. Hoever, all this talk about it being footage from 1991 could be an easy PR move. Either way, who ever is responsible for this will pay. We as Americans are not taking any more shit from these pathetic religious disputes over dirt. If the holy land means we have to deal with this kind of nonsense then pave it. God bless America.

I feel like you're saying that because our country did some dumb things in the past couple of decades, which may or may not have actually been wrong, they deserved this tragic punishment. That is perhaps one of the most crass and insensitive things I have heard so far. Nobody deserved to die over this, especially not 20,000 people. Honestly, I couldn't care less about the old footage. Do you really think they aren't over there doing about the same thing they were in that tape from 1991? Of course they were. What's the big deal if it's recycled? I hope you realize how horrible what you said in the last paragraph seems. Maybe next time, when a national tragedy occurs, you could think about what you're saying a little more and have a little more compassion for those affected.

Arafat says that the individuals were punished. So I assume the video is new?

Arafat denies celebrations
Arab leader says that Palestinians empathize with U.S. victims and that masterminds must be found and punished.

September 13, 2001

By JAMES BENNET
The New York Times


JERUSALEM -- Yasser Arafat angrily rejected in an interview Wednesday night any suggestion that the Palestinians had rejoiced over the terrorist attack Tuesday on the United States, declaring that the Palestinian reaction was one of identification and not satisfaction with American suffering.

"For your information," Arafat said, when asked about images shown around the world of Palestinians celebrating, "it is clear and obvious that it was less than 10 children in East Jerusalem, and we punished them."

It was unclear how this assertion could be squared with photographs of crowds.

I knew Russia wasn't above this sort of thing during the Cold War, and it really doesn't surprise me all that much that our own government (USA) isn't above it either... :/

If this is so, and CNN gets called down on it, they'll probalby just claim that someone just accidentally inserted teh wrong tape. *sigh*

What you need to do is write reporters at Brill's Content. If there is anything here, they'll look into it. They live to (and love to) expose little stuff like this.

Mike...

I got the same report from another source (an Islamic 'priest' here in Argentina, seen on TV). He said that the people on that footage are singing in Arab and form what they say is obvious that it's not about what happened this week.
Anyone knows enough Arab to confirm?

I guess you are right, it is easy to confirm.
I know Arabic, but I didnt pay enough attention when I saw the footage. If it will be on TV again, or if any one knows where I can get the audio part online, then I can confirm.

Next time you begin a web page you might consider spell check.

BethX,
How long was the period between them actually being filmed till when it was showed on American T.V.?

A few hours at least?

not defending cnn at all, but: that footage was real. why are you surprised? kids don't know any better. one can tell the difference between footage from 10 years ago and footage from this week. besides, ten years ago, palestinian children hadn't yet developed this sort of behavior. if you wanna blame cnn for anything, blame them for hiding the truth about iraq away from the american public.

I live in Jerusalem and I can confirm it. I spoke with people here who say it with their own eyes. One potential reason for the lack of footage is that the Palestinian Authority threatens the lives of reporters in the West Bank and Gaza who report things that are unfavorable to the PA. In this specific case they threatened to kill one journalist who had filmed the celebrating. The rest probably just didn't even bother because they knew it would endanger their lives.

The specific images being used by CNN may in fact be archive pictures, footage, but that doesn't change the reality of what happened - namely that large numbers of Muslims across the middle east were happy about the attack.

The PLO Rx: Give Blood, Threaten Cameramen, Call Me in the Morning
By Timothy Noah
Slate
slate.msn.com/code/chatterbox/chatterbox.asp

"While Chatterbox is delighted to learn that Yasser Arafat has donated blood in the name of the victims of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, he is growing impatient over the 1994 Nobel Peace Prize recipient's apparent reluctance to countermand a threat made by Arafat's Cabinet secretary, Ahmed Abdel Rahman, to a cameraman who on Sept. 11 filmed for the Associated Press Palestinians in Nablus celebrating the American carnage. According to the AP, Rahman told the AP's Jerusalem bureau that the Palestinian National Authority, of which Arafat is president, "cannot guarantee the life" of the cameraman if the footage airs. (In USA Today, Matthew Kalman reports that Rahman threatened other news agencies, too.) At the cameraman's request, the footage did not air, though AP and other footage of similar celebrations in east Jerusalem and elsewhere have been shown on TV. (Click here, scroll to the bottom of the page, and click on "Worldwide reaction to the attacks--9/11/2001" to view some.) Nor have still photos of the Nablus demonstration taken by an AP photographer been distributed. If Arafat doesn't remove the AP fatwa soon, Chatterbox may have to drop a dime to the Norwegians. You don't want to be around these guys when they get mad."
"

There are more newsstatsions then CNN, and some of these around also had reports and footage of candy-handing partying palestines (although that was shot the next day).
Eye-witness reports of reporters (NOT american even) said that it was not just one incident but seen in several cities. Including comments 'we lost everything already, why should we hide our true feelings.'
Even if CNN might have used stock footage (highly unlikely) it doesn't change what happenned, unless you would like to speak of a worldwide conspiracy against palestines, set up within 2 hours after a major disaster.

goodbye.

It is easy to feel manipulated if that was stock footage; they should have said "this is not the actual scene today because our journalists were warned they would not be safe going in there."
But the Palestinians and Iraqis and Afghanis WERE celebrating the horrific deaths of thousands of innocent people. All CNN had to do was say "Journalists report scenes of celebration in the streets similar to these scenes filmed at the time of Iraq's invasion of Kuwait."

I think that now is not the time to debate whether the US bought this on themselves. Right now is the time to clear up and help people affected around the world put their lives back together. When the dust is settled we should have a better idea of what happened and then talking about the rights and wrongs of US foreign policy will be appropriate. Innocent people have been killed and justifying it by saying that the US have killed lots of innocent people (which they have)does not make it right.

Also maybe you should switch off dumbed down CNN and watch some proper news for a change.

I don't really know arabic but the only singing i could make out from the kids in the cake eating pictures was "allah hu akbar" repeated over and over again which means "god is great" - that seemed to me to be the only thing that was being said; the rest was just the usual yells and warbles of general enthusiasm.

so much for honesty with the media. cnn simply wants to boost its ratings for the nielsons. how very sad. only a new yorker with freinds and family.

Here is a link to a story about the Palestinians threatening journalists who wanted to report the celebrations.

www.jpost.com/Editions/2001/09/14/News/News.34841.html

If there were enough people who believed so strongly that this tragedy should be done that it was done then it should come as no surprise that others would celebrate it. That being said there was another reason for Pakistans to be celebrating on Tuesday September 11th. Here is a list of fixed national holidays in Pakistan.

Fixed Public Holidays

23 March Pakistan Day
1 May Labour Day
14 August Independence Day
6 September Defence of Pakistan Day
11 September Anniversary of the Death of Qaid-i-Azam
9 November Birthday of Allama Iqbal (National Poet)
25 December Birthday of Qaid i-Azam (general holiday)
Christmas Day (Christians only)
26 December Boxing Day (Christians only)

Now I have no idea how celebrated an event this would be, not being from Pakistan myself. It is, however, a national holiday...

we are with DC TV interrested with your professor's footage. Any way it can be published on line so we can download it and use it? Or can you mail us a copy? We are at WBIX, WBAI radio IN EXILE, PO Box 20798 NY NYC 10009

how about changing the channel? if anyone ever looked at their tv, i am sure there is a button there to change the channel. that is for when you don't like what one station has on, you can switch to another one. quit complaining and switch the channel

america is not perfect, has never claimed it was perfect. but, when death and distruction hit other countries, when the economics are falling in other countries, who helps them?? america has. and america has never, ever expected anything in return. we have given billions and billions to others and never received a penny back, nor asked for it. when countries owe billions we 'forget' it and move on. i have seen NO other country give as much as us. people from other countries flood into america--why is that?? why don't americans flood into other countries?? if they hate us so much then why do so many prefer to live here?? we give them what no one else can: FREEDOM, the one thing everybody on this planet should have. they're jealous because, to put in plainly, they suck and they know they do. america is not perfect, our leaders have made many bad choices, many choices that you discuss are ones that most americans agree were wrong. but, as civilians what can we do? we usually get rid of them, or protest, as civilians we are NOT to blame for the suffering our leaders may have caused others, therefore the attacks on tuesday were NOT neccessary upon US. at least the japanese had the dignity and respect to attack a military installation and not americans. i say 'turn the desert into glass'.

who gives a shit if the news is new or old , I say kill all the fuckers for their actions !

sorry if this doesn't jive with the views of the establishment , but after tuesday's events they don't deserve to live !

not-perfect-america, you need to do a little more reading than just out of your junior high history book.

the United States has had plenty to do with enstating military regimes and undermining the economies of other nations; keeping the third-world third.

we give billions to countries to have them in our debt. the reason you have "seen NO other country give as much as us" is because you do not open your eyes.

i do agree with you, America is about freedom and prosperity for all. the United States however is not.

these terrorists attacked the global bully, the United States of America. there intent was to kill thousands of people and they did. but it wasn't for the sole purpose of attacking the people of America, it was to attack the citizens of the United States. it was to slap the bully in the face.

regarding "who gives a shit if the news is new or old , I say kill all the fuckers for their actions !"

i'm sure innocent muslims all over the world care. my friends have been attacked for nothing more than having "foreign" names. it's a shame that in his initial speeches the US president decided to read from the bible, as if this were a christian vs muslim war, rather than taking the time to ensure there was no ignorant backlash against innocent people.

right now president bush is on television praising the unity of american people, making no attempt to condemn the people perpetrating these attacks.

i have no doubt that your wish to "kill all the fuckers for their actions" will be granted. the US government's statement that "collateral damage" will be acceptable as part of retaliation ensures that thousands more innocent people will be slaughtered in addition to those who were murdered in the wtc and pentagon.

this was an unbelievably horrible crime, and I understand that people would seek retribution, but the attitudes of parts the news media, western governments (particularly the US and UK) and the israeli government are shocking attempts to twist a disaster into an advantage.

I'm not sure whether to believe these statements or not. For one, I can't help but notice the informal nature of this article. There are many mispellings, and just general errors. I would also like to see actual proof that those videos were taken ten years ago.

Not only that, but Kuwait was invaded in 1990, not in 1991 as it's stated earlier.

I've noticed several hoaxes going around the interent that involve the events of the past few days.

I guess we can never be certain who is telling the truth and who is not.

Don't forget, the internet is a form of media too.

Let me tell you what you can do with Kioto.....

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I don't think any educated person who has a heart is saying that what happened in NYC is justified in ANY WAY. What I do want to say is that whether the Palestinian footage is fake or not, there are some people out there who are celebrating this. These are people who have been directly or indirectly affected by the tyranny of the American military in Iraq and the support of Israeli oppression. How do you expect people, whose sisters and brothers had been ruthlessly killed by the American military, to sympathize with this? Innocent people should not be killed. It's not about America only. This is a time for the world to wake up and acknowledge and stop the tyranny all over the world.

so there is a high probablity that they were celebrating. think about it this way,
their in a country where they have no real clue as to what is going on. they know one thing; america is their enamy. so when news is spread that america was attacked, why the hell wouldnt they celebrate?

this is an absolutly horrificly tradgic incident, and my heart goes out to all those who were hurt and died. but, war will just cause more death and chaos to people who dont deserve it. the people living in afganistan are already oppressed and manipulated. war is exactly what the people responsible for this want.

how about we wait out and see who exactly did this, before we start polishing out missiles.

thank you,

I was deeply shocked by the terrorists attack. It's a difficult subject to talk about. However I have to disagree with single-minded proponent who, in mourning, do not wish to discuss further the political implications of the terrorist attasck.

I have watched every channels and have been disappointed by their coverage of the events. At the time of the event, the coverage was very 'good': they were caught unprepare and spoke from their hearts. And like everyone,I was shocked, in total disbeleif.

But now they are repeating almost the same things in elaborate and prosaic speech trying to heigthen the drama of a situation with rhetoric figures that are unnecessary since the tragedy speaks for itself.

On the polical side I have to agree with the people who started this column. Although it might not be that important to determine if the footage was recycled or not; it is important to determine whether it is representative of Palestinian feelings.

It is iomportant because World wide Wars have started on the basis of much smaller incidents... and yet, when we look back they aren't many wars -if any- that we can justify. We might sanctify the ideal that people fought for but not the casualties that resulted from it. If were are to be 'advanced' civilization can't we find more 'civilized' ways to deal with political issues than wars that will kill together prepetrators and innocents?

In response to those who touched upon the subject of US external politics I have only a few comments. Someone said that the USA gave billions with nothing in return. Just realize this: the USA weren't always the number one economical power in the world. How do you think they got there and how do you think they've sustained it?

I am saying think about it because US global economic domination can't be explained in a few words. In part it is because of the strong entreprenial feeling that reigns in America but it's also a lot of intricate Political reasons (and Social reasons other than what I gave as an example: Entreprenialism).

If you are not convinced, take any leading powers in the past -like the English- and see if how they acheived economic domination. Remember that you fought AGAINST that very domination - and, in turn, now dominate. However, let's not this be a excuse for the horrible tragedy that happened in New York. I am not trying mto defend terrorist acts.

I am merely saying that they are polical causes in the hatred that some nourishes against the USA and they are being poorly investigated by the television news. For instance, I think that more than just economical domination (which is very real: in a joust of nationals and international laws and regulations that affects people lives... and deaths- remember that thousands die in hunger throughout the world)... well more than political domination we should also discuss cultural domination.

In every country, the USA is very present culturally (promotes and sells product that are culturally significant such as movies, coca-cola, cars etc...). Some countries try to regulate so that local products can compete with the all powerful american industry. However it's often a lost cause because in exchange of governemental help the USA ask those country to deregulate customs.

When the locals products which also means CULTURE can't compete some people can be frustrated of being stripped of their cultural identity by others... Does that justify some to declare a holy war against America? No of course not. But does it helps us understand -perhaps. And in understanding are we capable of protecting ourselves... CERTAINLY!

I know this is just the beginning of a whole discussion to be had on the subject but I thought they would be interesting insights on the subjects.

Again these are NOT excuses for the event of September 11th. Today I am wearing the color of America in sincere mourning for the atrocities commited.

By 930 eastern the world was rivited on the events at the world trade center. which is 430 in palistine. hours before sunset.

It seems odd to me that.. The leader of this coutry said himself.. There was a small group in the west bank celibrating in the streets. Why would he admit to it if it wasn true and CNN just used old footage??

nice to see such moderately civil conversation going on here. it's nice to be using the internet to further discussion/communication and increase our global understanding of a variety of perspectives, rather than the typical AOL chat room toilet talk, otherwise prevalent on the web.

anyhow. i'd like to add that both my parents are from southern India. i was born and raised in Los Angeles, CA.. and because of my social environment, have always considered myself an American first and foremost. i live in Seattle now, and since tuesday's bombing have received a number of deregatory comments, despite that fact that i am not Muslim, nor am i Middle Eastern, nor were my parents Muslim or Middle Eastern -- they are from India and they were raised in peaceful, Hindu communities along the south east end of India's peninsula.

regardless, i have received a number of hateful comments this week (which is shocking, consdering that i live in metro Seattle -- i can only imagine what goes on in rural America). the worst of which was, as i was walking to work, a large truck pulled into a salvation army, and quickly backed out as i was walking behing it. i lept as the truck hit my side and fell to the floor. i was okay. the driver got out and was immediately apologetic. however, a passer-by spit at me, as i laying on the asphalt, and muttered, "you deserved that s**t you f**kin terrorist motherf**er."

this, of course, is shocking to me as i have always identified with being an "American". moreover my heritage is INDIAN not AFGHANI.. and South Indian at that! when was the last time you've heard stories of war-like temperment in South India, let alone terrorist activity?

my point being that evil breeds evil. one evil act is met with several more. it strikes hatred and prejudice the hearts of those who suffer its pangs. i'd thought our new generation had become more cognizant of this dynamic.. but it looks like we're spoiled, and our overwhelming sense of national security in recent years has made us hypersensitive. evil and intolerance feeds on the over-emotional, hypersensitive, and subsequently vulnerable. not matter how strong hate makes one feel, the truth is hate is something that controls people and has unequivocal power over people.

so i ask of everyone: please do not persecute one another, and retrogress to a point of using American minorities as scapegoats for your frustrations. have we not learned from our past mistakes? hate breeds hate. evil breeds evil. and as Mahathma Gandhi once said, "An eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind."

i've had some t-shirts made for americans of all types and posted them to:

www.cafepress.com/notosama

don't feel pressured to buy them -- they're ridiculously overpriced. i don't make any profit from these products.. the prices are set by cafe press themselves. but i thought it might be a good message to send people, before things get out of hand. instead.. print your own shirts, talk with people you know, post to bulletin boards, and do everything possible to prevent the wave of cynicism, skepticism, suspicion, and hatred that has empirically resulted from similar events.

thanks for reading this.

as junk mail) are totally infuriating. Also please ignore anything written by people who use capital letters excessively (eg. THOSE IMAGES WERE SHOT BACK IN 1991!!! )
What horseshit.

Many people in the world thinks US deserves the result of their actions to other poor countries for many years.

There can be many enemies beside arab countries. CNN disgusts me when it pointed arabs as soon as the accident happens. Do you think really PA did that? There're many other vilain countries US have decided to decimate, whose people are suffering more from US than the atrocities of their despotic leaders in the long run. They all have timely reasons to perform such horrible terrorist act.

The clip is broadcasted to assure public and consolidate the poor arab leader as a prime suspect without credible proof. In the fear of internal destruction, US is pointing out other country hurried. I pity PA for this. I'm sure most of PA people don;t give any care to know what happened in your city. They are much more worried about their daily lives which they have managed to live in this extremely difficult situation, raising children,caring parents, education and bringing enough meal for their family. Price of everything is skyrocketing because of US sanction, and children have to digest unedible things.

Do you know your troops pervade how many countries through out the world raping and killing innocent civilians in the name of justice? Do US sum their lives for record? Don't you dare to estimate the anger to US armies around world. Spy china over their land then caught and fingering china for 'attacking unarmed airplane?' North Korea tried to build reactor for the shortage of electricity but pointed out as "Weapon factory" then disarmed. Sudan tried recover economy with drugs but pointed out as "Chemical weapon factory "then bombed. US is acting histerically funny in other countries' people see it.

Naive americans. turn off your biased TV. I'm not supportive of terrorist acts or course, but I support suffering and desperate people. They have reason to chear even though morally and seemingly wrong. They have suffered more than enough because of US.

Massive brain wash is going on right now by US media. And please think even a split of second about numerous innocent lives your people killed which CNN never showed and never will care about.

me being from america I would like to know something

Wheres the prof. that this happened in '91?
all I read was you repeating that the flim was takin in '91 over and over again.

if you think that you are writing the truth and you show me no prof. then you are lieing and did this just to get people to come to this sorry site.

THANK YOU GOOD FUCKING BYE!

If you listen, before trying to disprove it, to the Dancing Shitheads clip, you will notice that one of the dirt-bags says that it is about time this happened to America and that there needs to be "more of it".
And, for those who want to talk about all of the crappy things America/Americans have done, read this and balance your f'ing opinion!

This, from a Canadian newspaper, no less, is worth sharing.

America: The Good Neighbor.
Widespread but only partial news coverage was given
recently to a remarkable editorial broadcast from
Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian television
commentator. What follows is the full text of his
trenchant remarks as printed in the Congressional
Record:

"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for
the
Americans as the most generous and possibly the
least
appreciated people on all the earth.
Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and
Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the
Americans who poured in billions of dollars and
forgave other billions in debts. None of these
countries is today paying even the interest on its
remaining debts to the United States.
When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it
was the Americans who propped it up, and their
reward
was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of
Paris. I was there I saw it.
When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the
United
States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59
American communities were flattened by tornadoes.
Nobody helped.
The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped
billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now
newspapers in those countries are writing about the
decadent, warmongering Americans.
I'd like to see just one of those countries that is
gloating over the erosion of the United States
dollar
build its own airplane. Does any other country in
the
world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet,
the
Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why
don't they fly them? Why do all the International
lines except Russia fly American Planes?
Why does no other land on earth even consider
putting
a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese
technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about
German
technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk
about
American technocracy, and you find men on the moon
-
not once, but several times and safely home again.
You talk about scandals, and the Americans put
theirs
right in the store window for everybody to look at.
Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and
hounded.
They are here on our streets, and most of them,
unless
they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting
American
dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.
When the railways of France, Germany and India were
breaking down through age, it was the Americans who
rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and
the
New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an
old caboose. Both are still broke.
I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced
to
the help of other people in trouble. Can you name
me
even one time when someone else raced to the
Americans
in trouble? I don't think there was outside help
even
during the San Francisco earthquake.
Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one
Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get
kicked around. They will come out of this thing
with
their flag high. And when they do, they are
entitled
to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating
over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not
one
of those."
Stand proud, America!


And, yes, exercise your spell check once in a while!

You keep talking about how it was so wrong to show those images when it's not representative of all Palestinians. But umm...IT'S NEWS! They record what is happening and send it back if it's newsworthy. They arent there to make judgements. Last time i checked that would be censorship. Feeding us things they deem proper. I'm not claiming the News isnt out there to make money. And they do bend the truth sometimes. But the point is, it happend, they recorded it, we saw it. Stop whining and being so self-rightous. It's a News station fer god sakes

CNN has officially denied that they used file footage (check out . Unless you can provide us with the goods, Marcio, I'm afraid you are just providing another reason for us to not trust the info we receive here. False rumors are easy to start, especially on the internet where misinformation abounds. Not that Marcio is necessarily a nasty intelligence agent or anything (false rumors can be started for all sorts of reasons, including simple mistakes), but it seems clear to me that planting such false stories is a cheap way to disrupt indymedia and other attempts to counter the dearth of information provided by mainstream outlets. Let's not go around making big claims like this one until we check out the info a little bit. I initially heard about this story because a friend rushed an email to me saying that CNN's videos were file footage and implying that the celebrations had never occured. I must say that at this moment I have more faith in CNN's denial than in Marcio's vague claim--the whole thing just erodes my confidence, just a little bit.

I am so glad that indymedia is here, and I have learned much just from reading through the many posts generated by this story. I don't want the value of indymedia to be compromised by crackpots and informants who come along and post whatever old story they care to fabricate. I think this is to some extent inevitable, however, so I therefore suggest we carefully take 10% of the skepticism we aim at the major media outlets and direct it toward ourselves as well.

So anyway, Marcio, what do you have to say for yourself? Are you spreading false rumors or what? Give us the goods or tell us you don't have them, but don't leave us hanging. Shit or get off the pot, my friend!

Where is your proof of these charges? While I don't exactly find it difficult to believe that CNN or any other major news network would "Bend the truth" for a sensational story, I also don't blindly follow internet leads either. I urge everyone reading this not to blindly believe the footage seen on CNN or the internet post above declaring it to be from 1991. Please look into this deeper before passing along untrue information to the masses. As to where to look, your guess is as good as mine.

There is so much talk about truth and proof on this website.. amd that there must be proof to show that the footage is actually from 1991. What about proof that this was actually done by Osama bin Laden or who ever it is that did these terrible acts. Americans are teh first to blame others based on pure sepeculation (spread by their biased media), and very conveniently also the first to ask for proof when they or things connected to them are threatened.

Secondly everyone seems to forget that the Taleban and other mujahedeen and jihadi groups are a direct product of the CIA. When Afghanistan was invaded by the soviets, these religous grups were created to fight the soviets, and now when they have grown too strong, they are labelled as terrorists! How convenient. All of you americans will be appalled by the conditions in afghanistan.. there is literally nothing left there... it is just a wasteland after decades of bombing/fighting... and when you talk of the USA being a great benefactor, take a look at what us Pakistanis, who are supporting more than a million afghan refugees. They are all over the place. What have you done for them afetr using and abusing them... just place sanctions on them!

As a Muslim American I have read the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion. In this book it states how the Zionists will manipulate the media for their own gain. There is tremendous zionist influence in the media. It is all a game to look good. What does a person or a business do when they advertise? They want to look good so you will be swayed to their opinion or buy their product.

I know this is not pertinant to whether or not the taped footage on CNN is current or past footage. But it bothers me and I need a forum to express this.

It bothers me that some people around the world are saying the situation is deplorable but...but Palestinians have a reason to celebrate...but Arab nations see the U.S. as a demon power...but the terrorists feel powerless and so have reason to strike out...but...

For me, there are no excuses for this action. The U.S.A. could easily have degenerated to this level of internal conflict many times. We could easily have become the Israel/Palenstine conflict. But the leaders we, as a majority of the nation, choose to put our faith in were the ones with peaceful solutions.

The best example I have is the 50's and 60's when the issues of Civil Rights were fought out. We could have turned to the Ku Klux Klan and the Black Panthers and other violent and martial groups. We could be seeing church burnings and lynchings and outright war in our streets every day.

But the majority backed people like Martin Luther King, Jr., and leaders who learned from Ghandi in India. They used peaceful, non-violent resistance and WON! Granted, we are not perfect. We still have steps to take until all Americans feel valued but on that campaign in the past, we won the laws to set that process of belonging in motion!

Who you decide to back is your choice, I guess. But you will reap the dividends from that. So think. And put your faith in people who will get you the treatment you want. If you want equality and fair treatment, then choose as leaders, people who will put that out in the world. If you want violence, back those leaders. But don't come crying to me when that violence is returned to you.

A mirror reflects. It's a law of physics. Wiccans believe in a 3-fold law: what you put into the universe will come back to you three times as much. Christians phrase it as reap what you sow. I know other major religions must have the sayings also. They are true.

the video of middle east might of occurred in 1991 but it is a bona-fide effective representation on the happenings of sick celebrations that passed since September 11, and anybody who was not put in horror from the terrorist attacks should die hundred deaths while there family watches in jubilee.

I can't beleive cnn would do that! why? It is stupid how the media can manipulate us like that...

You all should read the news article written by Canadian television commentator Gordon Sinclair Titled " A Tribute to America"
Get a clue people !!! This attack was a totally unprovoked terrorist act by a bunch of extreme religious fanatics on thousands of totally innocent fathers, mothers,brothers, sisters and children !!!

Even if the footage was fake, the people in my own town celebrating were not. Sorry, but it doesn't change the fact that many people around the world were celebrating.

If you have nothing good to say about the U.S., fine - that's your opinion. But what the hell has your country done for the rest of the world? Your views are just as biased as you say we are. All YOU see is what you see on the television - our soldiers killing others, our movies that portray us as an evil immoral people. What you probably don't see are the refugees we send out to help feed and clothe the less fortunate and risk their lives for it, the thousands of charities we establish to help those in need, the organizations we set up to make our citizens aware of the injustices that happen in other countries and what we can do about it.

Don't criticize what you know nothing about.

died 50 years ago. He was probably talking about Pearl Harbour.

Although it looks like many countries' ruler expressed supportive intention for US, it's only diplomatic duckling. Many of people in the world think US has gone to far and sympathize palestine and afgan people.

Leave arab in their hands. It's their land not yours, greedy americans. Arab is deliberately sabotaged and splited by western empires for so many years. They have right to anger.

nuff said

Okay so even if it was 7 hours later...

The towers collapsed around 9am Eastern Time (USA)... so if this footage was shot at sunset that means they must've shot it at around 7pm Isreal Time. So if the footage was shot at about 12pm US time than it could have easily been sent back here in time to air the footage in the US afternoon that day.

Peace be upon y'all

Somebody was asking Marcio, the original sender of the email that saying the CNN report was a fake one. Here is Marcio respond....

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marcio A. V. de Carvalho"
To:
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 8:30 AM
Subject: Palestinians


Dear all,

Last September 13, I've sent an email to this list in which I provided some information about the falsity of the images of Palestinian celebration for the terrorism in USA, information given to me by a teacher. I spent the last day looking for that teacher, and, unfortunately, when I found her, she DENIED having access to such images.

She said that she was sure she had seen the images back in 1991, but SHE CAN'T PROVE. She was not willing to provide further information, DENYING what she had said before to a full class of students.

I sincerely apologize for this uncertain information; unfortunately I can't prove the information contained in my last post; IT'S ONLY A CONJECTURE, THAT THOSE IMAGES OF PALESTINIANS CELEBRATING IS FALSE. I bought the idea myself, and reproduced it for you because of the importance of it, in the case it was to be confirmed.

Whatever news I get I'll pass to you.

Best regards

Márcio A. V. Carvalho
State University of Campinas - Brazil

If this is true, let CNN have it, I say, it WOULD be dispicable. If it is true. But 99% of what I find in my e-mail are hoaxes, and e-mail directed me here. So show me that it is true.

But aside from the veracity of the footage itself, the dancing was apparently going on, otherwise, I would not have heard Palestinian leaders on TV appologizing for it. (Or perhaps these were interviews cleverly reworked to SEEM as though they were done the day of the bombing!)

Seriously, it is not the Palestinian response to the WTC attack, whatever it was, that will derail our policy towards the region, it is the response to what we are about to do.

As a journalist and one especially concerned with responsible press, I was compelled to investigate the allegations made here and repeated widely in the past few days that the highly incendiary imagery of Palestinians celebrating on Tuesday was in fact ten years old .... aI have received a direct confirmation today from Eason Jordan, Chief News Executive at CNN, that the footage is current. Following is the original posting attributed to Jordan and CNN, and his confirmation to me that it is authentic:


From "About.com" posting by "Kai Yamada" at Sep-15 7:08 am:

I've been researching this story, since a relative sent it to me.
I found a refutation in the form of a letter from EASON JORDAN, Chief News Executive, CNN on the Poynter.org site, [http://www.poynter.org/medianews/letters.htm#jordan], a website for students of journalism.

Here's the relevant excerpt:

Ridiculous tale
From EASON JORDAN, Chief News Executive, CNN: The suggestion that CNN used 10-year-old images to illustrate Palestinians celebrating the terrorist strikes in the U.S. is baseless and ridiculous. The videotape was, in fact, shot Tuesday in East Jerusalem by a Reuters TV crew and included comments from a Palestinian praising Osama Bin Laden, who was not a Gulf War player. The more interesting story -- it has the added value of being true -- is that Palestinian officials have threatened journalists for taking pictures of these Palestinian celebrations. (From the Jerusalem Post )
www.jpost.com/Editions/2001/09/13/News/News.34751.html

In a message dated 9/16/01 10:33:06 AM, Eason.Jordan (at) turner.com writes:


>Yes, the Poynter posting was from me. The allegation is nonsense. My colleagues and I are swamped with real news coverage. We don't have the time or desire to stop serious work to disprove a baseless rumor.

Yea they did celebrate. Why? Because it was a national holiday for them.

Holidays from above post:

23 March Pakistan Day
1 May Labour Day
14 August Independence Day
6 September Defence of Pakistan Day
11 September Anniversary of the Death of Qaid-i-Azam <-----
9 November Birthday of Allama Iqbal (National Poet)
25 December Birthday of Qaid i-Azam (general holiday)
Christmas Day (Christians only)
26 December Boxing Day (Christians only)

let's be truthfull about current events.
many people are trying to influence public oppinion right now.it is called propaganda.isreal has something to gain by demonizing palistinians,palistinians have something to gain by demonizing isreal.when you read something,or say try to solxve a crime,ask your self "who will gain from this" the correct answeres are almost always easy conclussions.people are upset.
people everywhere.people are affraid too.all people.almost everyone.word to the wise.
stay informed.take care of yourself,do not hate reguardless of history,if some one breaks the law,punnish them.just the facts please.
all of my love,some of my pain.
anton alfred newcombe/ the brian jonestown massacre

Well CNN denies. So if the history about the old fottage is true then post it to this site, so we can see.... Otherwise stop the disinformation....

CNN may have used old footage ... that I believe. Palestinians were actually dancing in the streets on September 11th ... that I also believe. But does anyone question why they they showed that footage to begin with? Maybe to instill hatered for Palestinians, Arabs and Muslims in the American mind at a time when we STILL aren't positive who really did this? And they play the same clip over and over, guys. Did anyone see the clip of Yasser Arafat giving blood? Did anyone see the clip of Palestinian children, wearing shirts with USA written on them, holding a prayer vigil in honor of the innocent Americans? This doesn't make American media...uhhh...unless I blinked and missed it.

Yes, it is wrong for Palestinians to be celebrating this event but you have to understand where they are coming from. When America was in the Gulf War and bombed Iraq, did Americans celebrate?? YES. In fact, I have seen pictures of US Soldiers writing "die sand niggers" on missles that were to be dropped on Iraq. America has never supported Palestine, America has sanctions on Iraq, America sides against Pakistan in the fight over Kashmir ... that's only the problems of the Middle Eastern area ... this excludes what's going on in the rest of the world concerning America. The US needs to rearrange its foreign policy, don't you think?

This is not about children dancing in the street...the is about the scapegoat being the Musilms and THAT is why CNN showed that clip. CNN didn't do it bc they didn't have live footage, they did it bc that's what makes us hate the "other." All this "othering" will lead to a third world war and, quite frankly, I don't think we need one.

PEACE

Thank you, Marcio, for giving us an update on your professor's apparent lie. A couple of thoughts:

it is obvious that many Arabs and Muslims celebrated the attacks the U.S.. I find this easy to understand given the oppression that the U.S. government has subjected upon them. It is unfortunate, however, that the policy makers continue to walk free--more in control thaqn ever. The bin Laden's of the world have chosen a tactic which kills innocents while doing nothing to genuinely promote their cause.

It also seems clear, however, that the U.S. media has not sufficiently reported the many Palestinians and other Muslem support for the U.S.--in line with their strategic interests.

Looking forward to seeing more from indymedia!

I don't think that the validity of this footage really matters. Just as on CNN they showed Americans in front of Islamic centers waiving American flags and chanting USA. The point is that all countries have idiots in them, and the U.S. has its share. The beliefs and stupidity of few does not speak for the country. We will find Bin Laden and the country that supported him in this attack and resolve things the way Americans always have. Victorious!!!!

Rumor is untrue. The palestian leaders had asked CNN not to
run it, saying it depicted only a small percentage of the population, remember? This was rported widely, as in
www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/breaking_2.html

Also, some media email lists carried a statement from the Chief News Executive @ CNN, eason jordon, who said "The suggestion that CNN used 10-year-old images to illustrate Palestinians celebrating the terrorist strikes in the U.S. is baseless and ridiculous. The videotape was, in fact,
shot Tuesday in East Jerusalem by a Reuters TV crew and included comments from a Palestinian praising Osama Bin Laden, who was not a Gulf War player."

And it WAS daytime, not dusk when the footage was taken. Do your math.

How is that possible, if even Arafat said that he is disgusted by the footage, I am sure he would know if it was real? Also CNN WOULD NOT jeopardize their many years as the truth broadcasting, for this type of hoax. I don’t believe this article and think that CNN’s rivals are just jealous. You all have to realize that if they can badmouth CNN it looks better for them. It’s the same story with all these stations posting bull like 5 firefighters were found, 10 policemen are found, Bin Laden is in custody, Israel is involved. I am tired of this crap, its time for respect and not for ratings.

USA should keep their nose out of other people's businesses. It's sad what happened, but the government cares more about the buildings and the damages than the people. All they see, it's the lost of billions. They should stop supporting Israel, who is a trouble maker, always whinning and making a big thing every time they get hurt, which we see on tv for ever. But, when it's about Palestine, we show it once, and that's it. Why does the US take such good care of Israel? Because of MONEY! What's the first country to export to Israel? USA! What country is the first Israel export to? USA!! Main production of Israel? Diamonds! Figure... If Israel was poor, USA wouldn't even look at them. They took care of Kuwait, because of MONEY again (oil). They're in good relations with Saudi Arabia because of MONEY (oil). Once Saudi Arabia runs out of oil, I bet you the US won't even remember them. "Saudi Arabia? Where is that?", they will say. Will they support or help them out, once they're in the ditch? I doubt! If there is something to destroy, why not destroy the wall of lamentations in Jerusalem, or give Israel back to Palestine as it was at the beginning, and send all the jewish community to NY, where they mostly are already anyways, or in a desert somewhere, in the middle of Africa? After all, they did it to Native Americans. Let's find them a territory nobody wants, and everybody will be happy. The Earth is big enough! Or, let's give them the Moon, since US has been working so hard to be the first ones to get up there, let's do something smart about it. Retaliate? OK, but chose the right target! Don't go bombing civilians, and later on say "ooops", we "missed". Why do you think Middle East countries don't really like the US? Because they support Israel, because they provide Israel with guns and missiles to fire on Palestine, because they want to rule the world, because salvation was abolished in the US, but they don't mind using and abusing third world countries that they make work at a cheap cost, to save MONEY. All right, every country has the right to democracy, and we have to make sure humans rights are respected. But did we take any country side in Africa civilian war, that opposed Tutsies and Outous in Zaire? We tried to stop it, but didn't go fight with one over another, because none of them had MONEY! Same thing in Yugoslavia! Now, only ruins are left, when it was a beautiful country. Capitalism? Ok, at a small dose, but let's not get an overdose of it. US cares about you if you have MONEY, once you're out of it, you're nobody! Just like when you work for American companies. As long as you bring and save them money, you'll be their best friend. Start slowing it down, and you'll be out in the streets. Those things make the difference between capitalism world and socialism world. You can become dirt poor in a socialism country, you'll always have somebody to help you out. Become poor in the US, they'll bury you! We cannot tolerate terrorism, right! This is cruel and coward. But, let's fight it smartly! Use your head, not your guns! Why does US have FBI and police? Start rulling your country a little better, and seak for the terrorists inside your borders before looking after the ones elsewhere. Stop producing and selling guns!! The US is a beautiful country, let's stop ruining it, by drilling, logging, mining, and not ad... bombing. Look after one another, not because the Bible say so, but because of humanism. Religion is strong in the US because of MONEY. It's a real business. Churches and new religions grow everywhere. Religion is strong in Middle East because they trully believe in their God. They don't go to the mosk to expect something in exchange, but because they want to. They won't get any tax break if they give money to their religion, the same for Bouddhism. If we could go without money, the Earth would be a free money land and our God would be fraternity. Let's hope!

"Dear" medias,
Dear Assholes!

Stop showing us over and over the same images! Those last events were terrifics for everyone, even more
for the family members! I don't think they appreciate seeing those pictures over and over, especially the
ones of people falling from the towers, and that some Assholes zoomed on!
Also, get your ideas straight before opening your mouths and writing your papers! Use your brain, get one
if you weren't provide with one, or just SHUT UP YOUR MOUTH!!! Stop making things up, and changing it
over and over in the next hour, day, week. What did you learn in school? Go back there and get a real
degree! Or starting writing "romance" books or science fiction ones, where you can make things up,
and nobody cares!
For this past week, I would like to give the Asshole's Gold Palm to Chris from CNN (white hair guy), inter-
viewing a (politician, republican from NE? Or FBI agent!? Well, doesn't matter), for harrassing this "poor"
guy with STUPID questions. Why didn't the US do anything to prevent what happened? Why did they let
terrorists on the soil? Etc... Do you know, Asshole, how big are the US, how many people live in, how
many visit them, how many come for business and how many police agents there are in proportion for all
that and all they already have to do? Just going through hierarchy takes half of the time. So, superman,
SHUT UP your F****** mouth before talking, and hopefully next time, your supervisers will be smart enough
to leave you in the closet with some tape over your mouth! Go get a brain!
Here's your trophy ASSHOLE!!!

Gentlemen,
I read in the Media:
- 5 Israelis were arrested in NY because they were celebrating after the attack.
-Thousands of Jews and Israelis who work at WTC did not come to work on Tuesday 11 Sept.
Anyone can confirm above news.
Thanks

if the claims are true and CNN in fact did use old footage in order to add fuel to the flame of anger and saddness, then CNN should publicly apologize to the Palestinian people and to the American public. Not only did Americans see these footages of Palestinians celebrating, millions around the world also have live feed from CNN to their news stations and air it for their viewers to see. It is a shame and an atrocity that CNN would stoop to such a tabloid level in order to sensationalize something that is so tragic and increase ratings for themselves.

it would be really helpful if the people who believe the footages to be from 1991 to provide more proof so this does not turn into a witch hunt. however, if proper proof is provided, we must all take action and ask that CNN make public apologies and rectify these ugly lies which claim that Palestinians were celebrating the WTC incident, when in fact they were not.

When I first heard the news on the radio, I wasnt too bothered. I thought 'they deserve it'. It wasnt untill I saw the news on TV that night that the magnitude to the attack hit home. What really got me was the footage of pople jumping out of windows...

Whether the footage CNN aired was from 1990, or footage on the day, it has to be put into perspective. The Palistians are at war with the Israli's, the children in the pictures havent known true peace at anytime in their lives, so why wouldn't they rejoice at a major hit on the 'enemy'? Dont tell me people didn't rejoice when Hitler was 'reported' dead? When the American's dropped the atomic bomb on Japan-did people not rejoice? In Palistine, the USA is the enemy-with that in mind, the actions of the children in Palistine would make more sense-whether they are authentic or not. The only thing is that most people won't think of it in that light.

The fear that I have about that clip taken out of context is that of 'revenge attacks' of Muslims all over the world.
There are a lot of ignorant people in the world, who will think that all muslims are terrorsits. Islam doesn't condone this kind of action, far from it. The ignorence of people cant be helped but footage of such actions-of people rejoicing at such a catastrophe-won't help Muslims where ever they are in the world.

Oh....the notorius cake scene. Here in New York there has been much talk about that notorius cake scene with the person "making faces at the camera". Sorry, but we are too busy packing our body bags to notice your silly cake scene! And for your rude comments on how our country needs to realize we had it coming....we have been there for so many other countries. Relief funds for earthquakes, Hunger funds, Marches, Concerts....the lists goes on. Before you try to tell us that we should hold ourselves accountable for 5,000 deaths of our own citizens, I would love for you to first come here to the island Manhattan see for yourself the horrors that have taken place. Who cares about some CNN footage....The truth is that we have lost more people in Manhattan than in one year in the jungles of Vietnam. That is war. Death is a part of daily routine. We are breathing it in. I invite you to that reality.

A loyal New Yorker and American

The original source of the rumor re: CNN's alleged use of old footage of Palestinian celebrations has retracted his post. The link follows:

www.chicago.indymedia.org/comment.php3

While unfounded rumormongering is not something I relish, at the same time I believe this has been a healthy exercise in proper scrutiny of the Press -- on my part and several others, our effort was to track the allegation down, and to ask CNN for a refutation, which was given.(in the form of a letter from Eason Jordan, Chief News Executive, CNN on the Poynter.org journalism site, [http://www.poynter.org/medianews/letters.htm#jordan] the authenticity of which he confirmed to me in an e-mail).

As we progress in this "New War" I continue to feel that we need to be on guard against anything which might fuel hate crimes or unjust backlash against innocent people -- here or abroad. This wave of hate crimes and assaults -- ranging from harassment of Arab-American schoolchildren to murder -- has already begun [see LATimes story today: www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-091801hate.story]. In my notion of what makes America great, this is as big a danger as terrorism, and just as insidious.

Rob Wilson

I think the Russain post was just fine. His English is much better than many American's I know here where I live!

;)

4000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day of the Attack


Manar TV - Sept 17, 2001


www.manartv.com/


With the announcement of the attacks at the World Trade Center in New
York, the international media, particularly the Israeli one, hurried to
take advantage of the incident and started mourning 4000 Israelis who work
at the two towers. Then suddenly, no one ever mentioned anything about
those Israelis and later it became clear that they remarkably did not show
up in their jobs the day the incident took place. No one talked about any
Israeli being killed or wounded in the attacks. Arab diplomatic sources
revealed to the Jordanian al-Watan newspaper that those Israelis remained
absent that day based on hints from the Israeli General Security
Apparatus, the Shabak, the fact which evoked unannounced suspicions on
American officials who wanted to know how the Israeli government learned
about the incident before it occurred, and the reasons why it refrained
from informing the U.S authorities of the information it had. Suspicions
had increased further after Israeli newspaper Yadiot Ahranot revealed that
the Shabak prevented Israeli premier Ariel Sharon from traveling to New
York and particularly to the citys eastern coast to participate in a
festival organized by the Zionist organizations in support of the
"Israel". Aharon Bernie, the commentator at the newspaper, brought up the
issue and came up with a negative conclusion, saying no answer. He then
asked about the clue behind the Shabaks position in preventing Sharons
participation, and again without giving an answer. Bernie added that
Sharon, who was delighted for having his speech on top of the festival
agenda, asked the head of the organization to mediate and convince the
Shabak to change its position, but his attempts were in vein. The next day
after Sharons secretary officially announced that Sharon would not
participate the incident took place. For its part, the Israeli Haaretz
newspaper revealed that the FBI arrested five Israelis four hours after
the attack on the Twin Towers while filming the smoking skyline from the
roof of their companys building. The FBI had arrested the five for
puzzling behavior. They are said to have been caught videotaping the
disaster in what was interpreted as cries of joy and mockery.

Over 5000 people died last Tuesday.

Let's leave the goddamn politics to the politicians. We all know that in the international arena, NO ONE wears white.

Grow up.

Mourn those poor people who will never see their children, and the children who will never again see their parents.

Because no matter where an act like this takes place, it's still a tragedy.

I you want to smash someone for their ideology, that's fine, but for the love of God, respect the dead, mourn their loss, and feel compassion for those left behind that have to deal with the pain.

-R.

Just like usual USA always point fingers to foreigners promptly incase of any attack, but at last it appears that it was domestic.
It takes ages and ages for them to find out the facts, the media confuses them …PITTY.
For example the death of J.F Kennedy (Killed by a machine gun), the explosion of a center in Oklahoma...and so on...I think as a civilized country they shouldn't have that sort of weakness but if a country is run by the media that's the issue… CNN is one example of the USA media.
If I would be in their shoe for a while I will investigate first of How many Jewish did not report to their offices in the twin towers that day Sep. the 13 2001?

Second: let's presume the Arabians and Muslims passports found around the attacked places or even names listed in the flight manifest are real and not faked or stolen, why invitators don't presume that those names are victims of the same tragedy?
Did you ever witness a criminal carrying his identification with him?

There is a very important point to say to those who believe in NOSTRADAMUS prophecy, he didn’t say the fire going to be caused by a man from prophet Mohammed’s land, His prophesy said the defense will come from the man from prophet Mohammed’s land to the attack on Islamic/Arabian lands and it’s going to be a strong defense which will erase the house from the ground and the trees and birds from the sky of USA.
I would advice Nostradamus readers to look for the first version of the book and read it back because all the later editions are fake.

Another advice is: as planes are involved the Authorities should check in a list of professionals not trainees.
And what happened to the highjack code? All the 4 planes didn’t convert to it? Why? And what the AIR TRAFIC CONTROL said about the planes changing their routs?

If we want to be logic will find others fools but if we want to act fools the others will remain fools, I think CNN has to have Flight technicians and Pilots among her team then only they can talk professionally.

finally i would say:

It's important that we do not lose hope
In these times when we cannot cope

In memory of the victims of the Trade Center towers
I send to USA some hopeful flowers.

Although our lives have been torn apart
Their memories will live on forever in our hearts.

May God Bless YOU ALL

Is this doctored footage two? From the BBC even?
news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_1540000/1540102.stm

It's absolutely amazing how many seemingly or at least literate people on this earth simply can not separate emotion from intelect. "My Johnny is the best" and "not my Johnny" is the shit that sickens me most these days. People have there decision or bias well before any research or logic or fact is even considered. We are a world of trial lawyers and it's disgusting how far we'll go or how weak of an arguement we'll embrace.....all because we know we're right and they are wrong. We should all aspire to one day becoming smart enough to know that we don't know shit....then have the dignity to SHUT UP!

A Wall Streeter with an Arab Wife

I think this post from a muslim in the UK is worth pondering. I have paraphrased it in places.

--Fazl

My first reaction is that perhaps all well meaning
brothers/sisters who are bending over backwards to
implicate jews in this matter find it hard to accept
that such a dastardly act has quite possibly been
carried out by some zealots in the name of Islam.

Why this hesitation? It won't be the first time that a
rigid, over-simplified interpretation of the creed
resulted in disastorously wrong acts. Ever heard of
Khawarij? I suspect they do still exist, of course not
going around by this title. And their rigid views
justify murdering any one who dares offer a more
egalitarian, progressive view to the society.

Unfortunately, one such group has been nurtured into
being by the adventourous lot in Pakistani military
intelligence who had been deluded into believing that
they were the architects of USSR's defeat in
Afghanistan. They never realised that they were mere
pawns in the Big Game. So they had gone ahead with yet
another half-baked crazy plan. The monster they had
created is now putting the whole Muslim Umma to ransom.
Civilians were massacred in north and west of
Afghanistan in the aftermath of Taleban's victories. I
therefore find it quite conceivable that likes of them
can go on to do what happened in NY last week.

Let us face it: innocent men, women and children are
being murdered every day for different causes by
different people in different parts of the world. Let
us agree that it is the duty of every muslim to condemn
such murders no matter who the perpetrator be nor how
lofty their claim to the cause; whether the place be a
civilian building in downtown Manhattan or a pizzeria
in Jerusalem or an airport in Sri Lanka or a busy bus
station in Pakistan.

Please reflect on the fundamental issue: condemning a
murder is independent of rationalising whatever may be
the mitigating causes or attempts to milk the events to
their advantage by zionist lobby. Muslims face a huge
credibility gap. The messages landing in my inbox do
not help to imporve this. There are excellent analyses
in UK print media during the past few days (Robert
Fisk's pieces in the Independent strongly recommended)
which show how an objective rational argument can be
put forth without belittling the human tragedy of
events of last week nor ingnoring the tragedy befalling
various sections of Ummah every single day.

But a lot more important and urgent issue is what
should be our collective as well as individual duty, in
muslim territories and the diaspora? The field is wide
open once again for the enemies of Islam to seize the
initiative and dictate whatever terms they wish. Can we
have a better informed debate on this.

What a sad week it has been! Death, destruction and mayhem! But, is everyone wearing blinkers? Firstly, it does not take a brain surgeon to figure out that someone is very pissed off! But Why? Have any of you so-called intelligent people taken the time and trouble to ascertain why the USA is so hated in the Middle East? Are people too scared to hear a reason which may actually lend some credence to the attack and they may actually be forced to take some responsibility? I am completely surprised and aghast at the reaction of most of us.

Coming from Jewish heritage I learnt the history of the Middle East from a very young age, it having dominated most dinner conversations. In a nutshell: FACT: the Jews were expelled from Palestine by the Romans 1900 years ago, having lived there together with their brothers, the Arabs. FACT: the Jews established Israel in 1948 with the full co-operation of the USA and the UN, some 2000 years after having been expelled, without any regard for the people of Palestine. FACT: the Israelis contravened several UN resolutions and annexed far more land than they were entitled to (having been given permission by the West, particularly the USA) - do yourself a favour and look at a map of the region, its a real eye opener. FACT: the local Arabs were pushed onto a tract of land which is mostly infertile and barren and almost entirely economically dependent on Israel. FACT: Arafat needs permission to fly from his own cabbage patch. FACT: The USA ships close to $2 billion worth of arms to Israel each year. The Gaza Strip is full of remnants of US arms! AND THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON SINCE 1948! WHY ARE WE SURPRISED? I am Jewish and proud of it but I cannot on humantiarian grounds accept a land which is awash with the blood of our Arab brothers and sisters. We, of all people, owe them that. Is Arab life worth less than than ours? I admire them, their belief and they have showed remarkable restraint in the last 55 years. Quite frankly, I'm surprised this did not happen sooner. We must stop being so arogant and force our governments to change their foreign policies. The South Africans overcame apartheid why are we so complacent?

The fact is that this event is possibly the biggest eye opener the Western world will ever have, so lets learn from it!

Normally when archive footage is shown, the broadcaster marks the transmission with "Archive" banner. But oh yes, I forgot CNN is an American broadcaster for the Americans, so who cares about accuracy. Were NASA and CNN working together on the vidoes for the Manned landings on the Moon in the sixties? Something to think about?

The guy who wrote this finally admitted it was just hearsay. When challenged, he was unable to substantiate his claims. This isn't the only drivel that's been spread around by mass-forwarded e-mails. After a disaster of this magnitude, rumors fly faster than mosquitoes at a nudist convention.

A good site where one can check if rumors are true or false: www.snopes.com

This is not the first time I have seen this note (below) about 4000 israelis failing to turn up on the Tuesday to work at the WTC. The only part of this story mentioned in any 'accountable' newspapers is the bit about the five israelis caught filming the smoking remains from a nearby building. That bit is reported in the online versions of The MuslimNews (UK) and the Ha'aretz (Israel).

I tracked down the manar tv webpage which holds the full story:

www.manartv.com/html/news/documents-17_9_2001.html

The story in question is the sixth link in the list on this page (I can only reproduce the page containing the list because of the dynamical nature of javascript vs the static nature of html.)

If this stuff about 4000 employees not turning up is true then it's damn well important enough to quote things like :

o When the al-Watan newspaper (if it exists) published it's story and on what page

o Ditto for the Israeli newspaper Yadiot Ahranot revealing that Sharon had been prevented from travelling

But we get NO such references, so are Manar TV incompetent or spreading rumour ? Other obvious questions that arise from this story:

o How did Manar TV discover the 'unannounced suspicions' in the US officials, if they were unannounced - do they have a mind-reader working for them ?

o The 'For its part, the Israeli Ha’aretz newspaper revealed' makes it sound like this paper mentions the 4000 employees, but I found NO MENTION of that, only the story of the five illegal israeli immigrants caught filming the buildings. This smacks of mixing in a little truth to make a bigger lie believable.

Here is an interesting sentence from Manar TV's 'About Us' page (www.manartv.com/html/about.html):

'Al-Manar is the first Arab establishment to stage an effective psychological warfare against the Zionist enemy.'.

Also, In my diary Tuesday 18th was a Jewish holiday, and unless I see real evidence to the contrary, the simple explanation seems to be that someone is out of synch with reality by a week.

The fiasco caused by the rumour of CNN reusing ten year old footage is still going on too. The fallout from that will be that any other claims like this will be viewed with great suspicion - EVEN IF THEY ARE TRUE NEXT TIME. There was a boy who used to cry 'Wolf!' to get entertainment seeing the villagers all run outside. One day a real wolf came while he was in the field, but when he shouted 'Wolf!' nobody bothered to come outside and he was killed by the wolf.

May Allah improve our condition.

Wa Salaam,
Fazl

Firstly I must express my utter anguish and grief over the tragedy that has befallen not just USA but the whole world on Sept 11.

My condolences to everyone affected, directly or indirectly, by this inhuman act.

Now the point that i want to make here is that why are we all just presuming this to be an act commited by Bin Ladin ?
Where is the proof that he is involved ?
Has he accepted responsibility ?
Where is the hard evidence ?
Why would he issue a denial if he was such a cold-blooded terrorist ?
Wouldn't a person evil enough to commit this act take PRIDE in his work ??

Haven't you people ever heard of a set-up ??
A scapegoat ??

Why is the USA threatening to bomb Afghanistan so readily ?
Was it the Afghan government that destroyed the WTC ?

So what is the justification for going to war with a nation just because you "suspect" someone is hiding there.. someone who is not even a CITIZEN of that nation ?? Whatever happened to the cherished american "DUE PROCESS" .. whatever happened to "INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY" ??
Who is the USA to pronounce a verdict upon the people of Afghanistan ?
Do you think that the people there have ANY power over the presence of Bin Ladin in their country ??
How many innocent civilians will the USA kill just to smoke out one (alleged) rat ??

There are just too many variables here ... its not all black and white .. the only REAL thing is the loss of life and property in New York City..
What is important now is for us to try and reserve our judgements and "death penalties" till we know all the facts of the case ..
and one thing i DO know is that we will NEVER know the real truth.

www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/20/cnn.statement/

CNN statement about false claim it used old video
Brazilian university statement says no fact to original claim
September 20, 2001 Posted: 4:02 PM EDT (2002 GMT)

There is absolutely no truth to the information that is now distributed on the Internet that CNN used 10-year-old video when showing the celebrating of some Palestinians in East Jerusalem after the terror attacks in the U.S. The video was shot that day by a Reuters camera crew. CNN is a client of Reuters and like other clients, received the video and broadcast it. Reuters officials have publicly made the facts clear as well.


RESOURCES
Reuters statement on false claim it used old video

The allegation is false. The source of the allegation has withdrawn it and apologized. It was started by a Brazilian student who now says he immediately posted a correction once he knew the information was not true. This is the statement by his university -- UNICAMP -- Universidad Estatal de Campinas-Brasil.

Again, please read this -- and copy it -- and send it to anyone you know who may have the false information. Thank you.

OFFICIAL STATEMENT by Universidad de Campinas-Brasil
17/09/01

UNICAMP (Universidad Estatal de Campinas-Brasil) would like to announce that it has no knowledge of a videotape from 1991, whose images supposedly aired on CNN showing Palestinians celebrating the terrorist attacks in the U.S. The tape was supposedly from 1991, and there were rumors that the images were passed off as current.

This information was later denied, as soon as it proved false, by Márcio A. V. Carvalho, a student at UNICAMP. He approached the administration today, 17.09.2001, to clarify the following:

-- the information he got, verbally, was that a professor from another institution (not from UNICAMP) had the tape;

-- he sent the information to a discussion group e-mail list;

-- many people from this list were interested in the subject and requested more details;

-- he again contacted the person who first gave him the information and the person denied having the tape;

-- the student immediately sent out a note clarifying what happened to the people from his e-mail list.

The original message, however, was distributed all over the world, often with many distortions, including a falsified by-line article from the student. He affirms that a hacker attacked his domain. Several E-mails have been sent on his behalf and those dating from 15.09.2001 should be ignored.

Among the distortions is the fact that UNICAMP would be analyzing the tape, which is absolutely false. The administration considers this alert definitive and will be careful to avoid new rumors.

Alot of newspapers says that the list of passengers declared at the day after attacks does not contain the name of any Arabic person but after four days the FBI declared another list containing 19 Arabs .But few days later 1 of them was descovered to be dead two years ago and Saudi arabia said that seven of them are alive and they are now in Saudi Arabia so who is trying to convict Arabs of this attack .From the other side the former Pakistani foreign minister said that last July he was told by US officials that they would attack Afghanstan by mid October (which will become true now !!!) .I wonder also Who assacinate Ahmed Shah Masoud (the wise leader of the afghani oponents ) just one day before the attacks

The most amazing thing about all this Terrorism hysteria is the American reaction against what has happened to them. The events in NYC were tragic, nobody denies that. My US history isn't great, but I do know FOR A FACT that millions of US dollars have been pumped into Noraid and onto the IRA for YEARS!! The last time I checked the IRA are a terrorist organisation, so someone please help me out with this. From what I can see, at the same time as jets head off for Kabul, I look forward to a similar number heading towards the US, we are stamping out those who encourage, fund and harbour terrorists aren't we?

Wheter or not the footage was old or not plays a small role in this situation. Nothing that has been done in the past can be taken back, the terrorist attacks or the events that led up to them. When will people start looking at all of the poor bastards that are dead as humans. No color , no religion, or language should matter when it comes to human life.

Americans are for sure not innocent as a government in any way, in fact this is our fault. Sticking our heads in every one else buisnesss is what started this. Our government has given millions to these people in weapons to fight the russians who annihilated the countryside.

so all you gi's when you return you can tell me how much those american guns hurt when youre shot, or maybe the us is just gonna use you all for live minesweepers, i know afghanistan is full of them.

And now that we have uprooted their governments turned them on eachother and tried to manipulate there persons for our soul benefit, WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU EXPECT?

But god forbid we Americans take any losses . god fuckin forbid you bunch of pussies. Do you think we as a country have never taken out non military targets? Or Innocent women and childeren killed with weapons and bombs funded by the Americans.. Whats the Fucking difference..

If Americans would mind our own P's & Q's there would have been no attacks. And if I hear GOD bless America one more time i think i may vomit... And all these instant patriots. Morons...buiy your flag today, well i wiped my ass with mine cause its my RIGHT.

How bout you ignorant fucks beating up and murdering middle-eastern americans. or the moron in pheonix who killed some Indian Hindu, How american is that? We want to think this country is so great well i think its got problems at home that have always been more important than causing conflicts throughout the world which have led to these attacks.

Humans, i love you all muslim, taliban, american, pakistani
is there no one in the world who want peace? Americans only want peace allegedly if were the only ones not under attack. What will trillions of dollars spent, a bad economy, and millions more human lives make a difference....

None of these things have made to big of a difference in the past.

All you redneck idiotic americans who are ready to go to war, are you on crack? Have we learned nothing from the past..Two wrongs dont make a right. might doesnt make right.... and the united states supports terroism itself when it benefits our government...


America may not be the worst of the worlds evils but it stands with the rest. if our government was doing there job this would not be an issue..

just remember Americans your government got us into this mess now we will pay with our lives.

This whole mess is rediculous. no one wins in either situation. if Bush really thinks billions of dollars and millions of lives can accomplish defeating terrorism hes an idiot.


How many more people must die based on the whims of the idiotic white christian males that caused this problem.

Americans you small minded fools.

I am ashamed to be an american sometimes but watching my so called fellow citizens trying to burn mosques and murdering your fellow americans cause your a little scared .. well pack up for war im sure thats some scary shit.

if i see that shit goin down on my streets ill be the first Cracker there bustin heads.

CNN .. is American, but Israel come firs!!!
can anyone tell me How? and Why? this (American???) giant media company loyal to Israel mor than U.S.A ?

i think the US is doin a good job on bombin the Palestinians .the ppl involed should be killed and the ppl supporting bin laden should be jailed or even killed
they r the ppl we should watch out for
who cares bout CNN, i say,worry about things more importand,like..conitune the boming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Listen...I am in Canada. I am just making a point. Say I hate school, and my school burns down. I will obviously b happy, but it does not prove that I am the one who was responsible for the burning down of my school. It also doesnt mean that I feel no remourse. Also...Everyone is grieving over the many who have died in the attacks. And when CNN shows coverage, the subheading "ANTI-TERRORISM" is always there. Yet the US is bombing innocent lives and promoting terrorism same way. They are still unable to capture Osama Bin Laden, and in there attempt, they have killed many poor lives.

The bombing of the Trade Center has scared America shitless, and punked the shit out of them! I do not watch news, i watch it for entertainment, but for facts, its bullshit!

They show you that America is dropping food on Afghanistan for the poor people, and they think the people care. First off they killed people by doing this, they are dropping food and bombs...what the fuck is that...making afghanistans move the fuck away from there homes, and for what. To look for one man, and when they do find him, thousands of next followers will do double the damage to the states for revenge or whatever. They can't kill every single follower he has in the world. So they should just stop acting so stupid and thinking they r smart.

Look at all the thought and smart that went into the attacks on the US. And how the dumbest person i seen in my life, George W. Bush jus simply bombing Afghanistan hoping to eventually bomb Osama's ass. Honestly, the US should atleast TRY and be smart and think of a solution, instead of bombing the whole motherfucking country like fuckin stupid idiots!

That is like, someone hit a rock at my head while I am in a mall, Then I go and kill everyone in the mall and blow up the whole mall hoping that the person that threw the rock is dead. That is ignorance. I hope George W. Bush reads this message and comes back to me with some pussy speech like he always does that makes no sense.

Visit the following links for more documentation of Palestinian celebrations on Sept. 11 2001.

(Since many URL's do not fit onto one line of this e-mail, you will need to paste the parts into your browser, and remove any spaces that appear in the URL.)
www.honestreporting.com/critiques/2001/celebrate.jpg
Reuters -
us.news2.yimg.com/f/42/31/7m/dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010911/wl/crash_tradecen ter_palestinians_dc_2.html
BBC -
news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/americas/newsid_1538000/1538861.stm
Beirut Daily Star -
www.dailystar.com.lb/12_09_01/art31.htm
Boston Globe -
www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/255/nation/Leaders_deplore_but_people_rejoice+.shtml
Chicago Tribune -
www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-010911world.story
Salon.com - "Rejoicing in the streets of Jenin"
www.salon.com/news/feature/2001/09/11/west_bank/index.html
Even the Guardian (UK), the stalwart supporter of all things Palestinian, led its article ("Palestinian Joy -- Global Condemnation") with this:
"Palestinian gunmen at refugee camps in Lebanon fired into the air in celebration yesterday as the rest of the world united in revulsion at the ‘monstrous’ and ‘abhorrent’ attacks in the US. In East Jerusalem, people distributed sweets wrapped in the colours of the Palestinian tricolour and sounded car horns.”
www.guardian.co.uk/wtccrash/story/0,1300,550498,00.html

The Brazilian has admitted that they were wrong. This whole conspiracy about a 1991 tape is just a myth. The Palestinians WERE dancing in the streets after Sept. 11. There are not many images because they threatened to kill the photographers